DLR plans extension to Ladywell, Catford and Forest Hill

Discussion in 'Public Transport' started by Nick Barron, May 2, 2011.

  1. Nick Barron

    Nick Barron Admin Staff Member

    [​IMG]The DLR has released a concept map which includes a route south from Lewisham to Forest Hill. It's an ambitious plan, which would require major construction work in Lewisham, but if you live in any of the areas it would serve, would you use it regularly?
  2. betamatt

    betamatt Respected Local

    I'm not sure I'd use it that regularly (occasionally, definitely) although it's always good to have another option for my commute.. It would be a great boost for the area too.
  3. Monkeyboy

    Monkeyboy South East Crusader

    Can't see me using it much. The link to Catford would be great for locals, the link to Forest Hill would cost a packet and not sure how they would get the Transport & Works Act approval through. They would have to provide a robust case for all the compulsory purchase and other impacts, not clear what that would be.
  4. Ramble66

    Ramble66 Lives for South East London

    Being able to get the DLR from Ladywell to Greenwich would be good for when I can't be bothered to walk. Generally I think it would be great for the area.
  5. I like the idea of it going to Catford but like others have said can not see the sense going to Forest Hill considering the cost. Going to Bell Green/Lower Sydenham would be good with the possibilty of it going to Bromley (Hayes line) or even onto Beckenham. They really need to sort out the mess that is Lewisham centre for this to work. Should really be looking at it now with the regeneration of the area.

    Having a look at the map there is a stop after Lewisham. Wonder where they would put that?
  6. Max

    Max Proper Local

    I would most definitely use it quite a lot from Medusa Road to Greenwich, I love Greenwich and go there quite a lot, I normally walk it to there though so it could make me lazy.
    It would surely make a better case for the redevelopment of Catford, and vice versa of course.
  7. zosia

    zosia Member

    I think it's a great idea and would definitely use it. Would love to be able to go to Greenwich on the weekend without the hassle of looking for a parking spot.
  8. Stuart

    Stuart South East Crusader

    The old forum posted the map below recently, suggesting that a route using the existing rail corridor and parallel lines going via Brockley, Nunhead and on to Peckham Rye would be a much less expensive option.

    Considering Brockley and Nunhead are currently the most popular SEC forums I'd imagine the idea would go down well here!

  9. Max

    Max Proper Local

    Seriously? Leaving aside the supposed benefits to Catford, how is stopping going to Lewisham cheap?
  10. Stuart

    Stuart South East Crusader

    Satellite image of the alternative/additional Deptford to Peckham Rye branch here:

  11. Stuart

    Stuart South East Crusader

    Who's suggesting stopping the DLR going to Lewisham?
  12. Max

    Max Proper Local

    Well, I imagine it would have an impact on the frequency of trains at Lewisham.
  13. Stuart

    Stuart South East Crusader

    Any extension is likely to have an impact on frequency, especially as Lewisham is currently a DLR terminus (which it wouldn't be if the line gets extended to Forest Hill). That's a completely different issue from "stopping going to Lewisham" though.
  14. Max

    Max Proper Local

    The extension to Catford would be very cheap actually (and the argument that it would benefif Catford is very strong and Catford is looking at the affordability of a compete transformation of the Town Centre), it's only from Catford to Forest Hill that costs escalates (and benefits decrease).

    And the frequency at Lewisham is crucial, trains are overcrowded, density in increasing and capacity of transports there needs to increase, not decrease.
  15. Stuart

    Stuart South East Crusader

    London Reconnections has more on this:

    The idea of going to Catford is a relatively old one (it appeared in, but also predates, Horizon 2020). Indeed if it weren't for the difficultly of crossing the A20 just south of Lewisham station it would probably have been done by now, as Catford is an obvious choice and it wouldn't be too difficult to make the land available. It would also provide new journey opportunities and numerous benefits to the Hayes line and the Catford loop. However crossing the A20 is a major challenge that either involves massive engineering work at Lewisham and abandoning the current DLR infrastructure or diverting the A20.

    Realistically I suspect that the latter would only happen as part of a bigger scheme to deal with the traffic problem in Lewisham, but that doesn't mean to say it won't happen one day. The surprise is the idea of going on to Forest Hill. It is easy to see the benefits of providing a link to this busy hub, but the area between Catford and Forest Hill is a residential area that is very built up. A solution at ground level or involving a viaduct does not seem very attractive whereas a tunnel would be very expensive.
  16. Max

    Max Proper Local

    Yes I had read that already, I'm not sure they're correct though about how difficult it would be to cross the A20. Bridge or tunnel would be the answer. But it's nothing like tunnelling between Catford and Forest Hill.
  17. Stuart

    Stuart South East Crusader

    I chuckled at this further para:

    If a significant portion of these ideas were to happen, it would bring the DLR much more into the core of providing transport in London. Indeed, it can be argued that the 'Docklands Light Railway' is becoming more and more inappropriate as a name.

    What could the DLR be renamed as? Dodgy Light Railway?
  18. Max

    Max Proper Local

    Damn Late Railway.
    Stuart likes this.
  19. Matt

    Matt Fountain of Southern Knowledge

    The Deptford to Peckham Rye branch is never going to happen - it would severely impact on the Lewisham service - diverting up to half the trains away to Peckham would not be feasible, at peak times the remaining DLR trains would all be full on departure, and the Southeastern services would struggle to take up the strain. The satellite photo shows it taking over the Lewisham-Victoria line, removing those train paths plus al the freight that goes that way.

    Lewisham to Catford is on the agenda but the lack of foresight in terminating the extension at street level has left a major headache. There's zero chance of closing the A20 for any length of time, and there's nowhere sensible to divert it. Tunnelling or a flyover are the two options, but both would necessitate a long-term closure of the station/branch while the track was re-routed and a new station built above or under ground.

    It'll be interesting to see how much investment the DLR gets over the coming years. The Catford and Dagenham extensions are both long-promised and considered achievable, not to mention important for regeneration, but with ever-increasing passenger numbers, the focus moves to the central London termini, and what to do there to make better connections and reduce the chronic congestion at Bank.
    Stuart likes this.
  20. Stuart

    Stuart South East Crusader

    Yes, that's interesting mate. I just found this post from another site that goes a but further on this:

    Another, rather more important, problem is that the Lewisham branch would end up with two branches, reducing the maximum service frequency at each of them given the shared two-track section. Lewisham is already close to capacity during peaks, so reducing its service frequency is unlikely to go down well. An end-on extension to Forest Hill via Catford, on the other hand, would still benefit users of the Catford Loop and New Cross Gate lines, without compromising the service frequency.
    I suspect this is the reason why the Bakerloo extension via Catford is currently the favourite.

    Lewisham station itself may be a busy junction, but it's a bloody awful one, with many services forced to use the bypass viaduct that avoids the station completely. Its location means it has little scope for improvement, as it's right next to the confluence of two rivers and two arterial roads. Short of a major rebuilding and realignment of that station, there's not a hell of a lot more you can do with it.

    Catford / Catford Bridge and Forest Hill therefore have distinct advantages: services from the Chatham and Dartford lines can still change to the DLR at Lewisham (or Woolwich, in some cases), while those on the Hayes, Catford Loop and Brighton (to London Bridge) lines can change at Catford or Forest Hill. I'd expect to see some services terminating at a new Lewisham DLR station (probably with a bay platform) to help soak up some of the Dartford and Chatham traffic, but if the Bakerloo is also constructed, this means the Hayes branch is taken completely off the Network Rail map, freeing up more slots to increase Lewisham's existing heavy rail services to the City and West End, so it's still a net gain.

    I used to be in favour of running the Bakerloo via Lewisham, but the more I think about it, the less I'm convinced this is a viable option unless the rail infrastructure in and around Lewisham is substantially remodelled at vast expense. It's feasible, but it would effectively kill the present Lewisham Gateway regeneration project and mean restarting it from scratch.

    The Catford option still removes the Hayes services from equation, so many more services can stop at Lewisham and benefit from the DLR connection there. And it also means Lewisham can still accommodate a completely new line (or a branch from the Bakerloo) in about 20-40 years' time.

    So the DLR and Bakerloo both look like being extended into Catford at the same time to save money?

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